Comments on: The Poor, Persecuted Proponents of Proposition 8 (waaaa!) http://non-theist.com/the-poor-persecuted-proponents-of-prop-8/ atheist blog Wed, 28 Jul 2010 10:05:52 -0600 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.5 hourly 1 By: Habbit http://non-theist.com/the-poor-persecuted-proponents-of-prop-8/comment-page-1/#comment-183 Habbit Mon, 22 Jun 2009 02:20:20 +0000 http://non-theist.com/?p=71#comment-183 I know this post has been dead for half a year, but tea's statement, "To the doctor who refused to do HIS JOB, it makes perfect sense that he would be told to DO HIS JOB" is incredibly sick. Any person living under our Constitution who would advocate any form of government coercion is a very twisted individual. I know this post has been dead for half a year, but tea’s statement, “To the doctor who refused to do HIS JOB, it makes perfect sense that he would be told to DO HIS JOB” is incredibly sick. Any person living under our Constitution who would advocate any form of government coercion is a very twisted individual.

]]> By: Jack http://non-theist.com/the-poor-persecuted-proponents-of-prop-8/comment-page-1/#comment-149 Jack Sun, 28 Dec 2008 17:58:09 +0000 http://non-theist.com/?p=71#comment-149 In matters that affect us all, it sad to see that a difference in opinion is referred to flamebaiting. Who is narrow minded when someone expresses his point of view and then railed upon for having a different way of thinking? Does this blog invite a reply only if it is the same point of view? It is the same with right leaning blogs as well. It makes me wonder if anyone who posts have friends who think differently than him or herself. If so, chances are, you are all pretty decent people. While you may disagree with various points of view, you probably all have the same goal of trying to do the right thing. Of course, right is subjective to us, isn't it (each of us believes in a universal right)? So how do we get along then? By the way, the atheist cab driver doesn't have to go into the church, but the doctor has to perform the procedure which he disagrees with. Unless atheist also feel that others can't worship, the cab driver isn't really in a moral dilemma. The patient always have choices (some of them may not be convenient) on the doctors chosen. When the government forces a person to perform something against religious beliefs for a job, then there is a problem. Imagine yourself in the reverse. In matters that affect us all, it sad to see that a difference in opinion is referred to flamebaiting. Who is narrow minded when someone expresses his point of view and then railed upon for having a different way of thinking? Does this blog invite a reply only if it is the same point of view? It is the same with right leaning blogs as well. It makes me wonder if anyone who posts have friends who think differently than him or herself. If so, chances are, you are all pretty decent people. While you may disagree with various points of view, you probably all have the same goal of trying to do the right thing. Of course, right is subjective to us, isn’t it (each of us believes in a universal right)? So how do we get along then?

By the way, the atheist cab driver doesn’t have to go into the church, but the doctor has to perform the procedure which he disagrees with. Unless atheist also feel that others can’t worship, the cab driver isn’t really in a moral dilemma. The patient always have choices (some of them may not be convenient) on the doctors chosen. When the government forces a person to perform something against religious beliefs for a job, then there is a problem. Imagine yourself in the reverse.

]]> By: Grand_Marquis http://non-theist.com/the-poor-persecuted-proponents-of-prop-8/comment-page-1/#comment-109 Grand_Marquis Fri, 12 Dec 2008 00:26:05 +0000 http://non-theist.com/?p=71#comment-109 I can't tell if Zach is flamebaiting or if he's just a moron. Though his near-masochistic desire to keep responding makes me lead toward the moron end, he IS willingly posting on a clearly marked atheist blog, and I can't imagine that not being a premeditated decision. Hmm...maybe he's trying to count this toward his Witnessing hours? ;) I can’t tell if Zach is flamebaiting or if he’s just a moron. Though his near-masochistic desire to keep responding makes me lead toward the moron end, he IS willingly posting on a clearly marked atheist blog, and I can’t imagine that not being a premeditated decision.

Hmm…maybe he’s trying to count this toward his Witnessing hours? ;)

]]> By: tea http://non-theist.com/the-poor-persecuted-proponents-of-prop-8/comment-page-1/#comment-107 tea Thu, 11 Dec 2008 23:35:09 +0000 http://non-theist.com/?p=71#comment-107 Get over yourselves. One of the reasons why it is so important that same sex marriages be legal, is well, the legal reasons. If you don't believe me, try getting insurance when you're common law, it's not as easy and costs more than if you are married. It opens up different tax situations, it opens up health benefits from one's job, it opens up much more than a civil union does. This is important on the individual level, this is about being a person who can marry who they choose (as long as they are not too related to that other person). This is about choice. On the society level, it is about choice as well. The choice to become a bit closer to being equal to those who are in the majority. To the doctor who refused to do HIS JOB, it makes perfect sense that he would be told to DO HIS JOB. It's like an atheist taxi driver refusing to drive an old lady to church. They're going to do it because they're getting paid to. It's their job, they don't like it, they change jobs. Simple enough. I'm sorry, I don't have respect for that doctor because his job is to perform his duties laid out by whatever contract he is in. After he signs that contract, it's not his choice what duties he can and cannot do without fear of repercussion. For the catholic adoption centers being closed down, that is a bit surprising. If I wanted to adopt a child with my lesbian girlfriend, that's the last place I would go because of the catholics closed-mindness (usually). It wouldn't be an option to me and it surprised me that it would be to others. In any case, yes, both sides lied. It's easier to get your voice heard when you're lying through your teeth. This has been the case with many, many different things. This also happens when both sides don't really know what's going to happen. The people who were against 8 said "no, we're not going to require that it's in schools" but that wasn't quite what they said. I don't believe that parents are always right and I don't believe that the parents should automatically be able to choose exactly what their children are learning unless they are home-schooled. Then they only get to choose partially and shield them from the rest of society. I believe that a committee should choose what the students are going to learn, the librarian should choose what books are in the library. Did this child bring home a book because they had do? Doubt it, they were probably shielded from anything different at a young age and so were curious. Kids are, it's a good thing. Ok, I'm done my late rant on the subject. Just sometimes, things need to be thought through more. Get over yourselves.

One of the reasons why it is so important that same sex marriages be legal, is well, the legal reasons. If you don’t believe me, try getting insurance when you’re common law, it’s not as easy and costs more than if you are married. It opens up different tax situations, it opens up health benefits from one’s job, it opens up much more than a civil union does. This is important on the individual level, this is about being a person who can marry who they choose (as long as they are not too related to that other person). This is about choice. On the society level, it is about choice as well. The choice to become a bit closer to being equal to those who are in the majority.

To the doctor who refused to do HIS JOB, it makes perfect sense that he would be told to DO HIS JOB. It’s like an atheist taxi driver refusing to drive an old lady to church. They’re going to do it because they’re getting paid to. It’s their job, they don’t like it, they change jobs. Simple enough. I’m sorry, I don’t have respect for that doctor because his job is to perform his duties laid out by whatever contract he is in. After he signs that contract, it’s not his choice what duties he can and cannot do without fear of repercussion.

For the catholic adoption centers being closed down, that is a bit surprising. If I wanted to adopt a child with my lesbian girlfriend, that’s the last place I would go because of the catholics closed-mindness (usually). It wouldn’t be an option to me and it surprised me that it would be to others.

In any case, yes, both sides lied. It’s easier to get your voice heard when you’re lying through your teeth. This has been the case with many, many different things. This also happens when both sides don’t really know what’s going to happen.

The people who were against 8 said “no, we’re not going to require that it’s in schools” but that wasn’t quite what they said.

I don’t believe that parents are always right and I don’t believe that the parents should automatically be able to choose exactly what their children are learning unless they are home-schooled. Then they only get to choose partially and shield them from the rest of society. I believe that a committee should choose what the students are going to learn, the librarian should choose what books are in the library. Did this child bring home a book because they had do? Doubt it, they were probably shielded from anything different at a young age and so were curious. Kids are, it’s a good thing.

Ok, I’m done my late rant on the subject. Just sometimes, things need to be thought through more.

]]> By: Mark E. Sackett http://non-theist.com/the-poor-persecuted-proponents-of-prop-8/comment-page-1/#comment-69 Mark E. Sackett Wed, 03 Dec 2008 20:37:44 +0000 http://non-theist.com/?p=71#comment-69 This entire discourse has been sad and pathetic. The very idea that any of you want to take rights of any kind away from any human being is sad. You should all be ashamed. No God will look down on you favorably for that. You can rewrite your books, and your bibles and extract sopportive sentences that you feel allow you to hate all you want and at the end, if you believe in that nonsense at all then using your own rules and your own beleifs, you will be judged for your hatred in the end. This entire discourse has been sad and pathetic. The very idea that any of you want to take rights of any kind away from any human being is sad. You should all be ashamed. No God will look down on you favorably for that. You can rewrite your books, and your bibles and extract sopportive sentences that you feel allow you to hate all you want and at the end, if you believe in that nonsense at all then using your own rules and your own beleifs, you will be judged for your hatred in the end.

]]> By: Zachary http://non-theist.com/the-poor-persecuted-proponents-of-prop-8/comment-page-1/#comment-68 Zachary Wed, 03 Dec 2008 20:20:44 +0000 http://non-theist.com/?p=71#comment-68 First of all I don't have a particular opinion on whether homosexuals are able to choose their sexuality. Do I have proof for one way? No, but I have evidence. Many lesbians have confessed to being wronged by men and it has lead them to engage in lesbian activities which put them down that path. They literally chose to be lesbians. You can hardly blame them in those circumstances. Don't try to put me in a boat with people who think simply "NO THEY CHOOSE AND THERE'S NO OTHER POSSIBILITY." Genetics could be involved, I wouldn't deny it. But there's no evidence for that either. Just people claiming they didn't choose. And there's people claiming they did choose. Are you willing to admit that both are possible as well? (as a note I know one such lesbian who chose to be one due to her abusive husband, and her mother struggles to tell her it's wrong because the lesbian lover is incredibly more loving than any man in her daughter's life had been previous to that -- I'm not unaware.) I believe children should be taught the truth. I also believe parents should be privy to the information given to their children. In cases, even that don't include homosexuality, many parents have been upset over the content presented to their children either too early or in an overtly graphic manner. My POINT in bringing it up is that the opponents of proposition 8 called the supporters liars for even saying that it'd cause education about it in schools. Yet, it's true, and not a lie. If you read my post then I mention that as a problem. :) Anyways, I probably won't be checking this too often but I wanted to answer your questions. First of all I don’t have a particular opinion on whether homosexuals are able to choose their sexuality. Do I have proof for one way? No, but I have evidence. Many lesbians have confessed to being wronged by men and it has lead them to engage in lesbian activities which put them down that path. They literally chose to be lesbians. You can hardly blame them in those circumstances. Don’t try to put me in a boat with people who think simply “NO THEY CHOOSE AND THERE’S NO OTHER POSSIBILITY.” Genetics could be involved, I wouldn’t deny it. But there’s no evidence for that either. Just people claiming they didn’t choose. And there’s people claiming they did choose. Are you willing to admit that both are possible as well? (as a note I know one such lesbian who chose to be one due to her abusive husband, and her mother struggles to tell her it’s wrong because the lesbian lover is incredibly more loving than any man in her daughter’s life had been previous to that — I’m not unaware.)

I believe children should be taught the truth. I also believe parents should be privy to the information given to their children. In cases, even that don’t include homosexuality, many parents have been upset over the content presented to their children either too early or in an overtly graphic manner. My POINT in bringing it up is that the opponents of proposition 8 called the supporters liars for even saying that it’d cause education about it in schools. Yet, it’s true, and not a lie. If you read my post then I mention that as a problem. :)

Anyways, I probably won’t be checking this too often but I wanted to answer your questions.

]]> By: atheistik http://non-theist.com/the-poor-persecuted-proponents-of-prop-8/comment-page-1/#comment-34 atheistik Fri, 28 Nov 2008 00:43:34 +0000 http://non-theist.com/?p=71#comment-34 Zachary....so the topic was family and types of families. And you believe that children should not be taught the TRUTH that there are families out there with two moms or two dads, or even single moms and dads? Do you feel homosexuality is a choice? If so, how do you back that up? Is your reasoning completely based on your faith, or do you have some actual substance behind your position? Zachary….so the topic was family and types of families. And you believe that children should not be taught the TRUTH that there are families out there with two moms or two dads, or even single moms and dads? Do you feel homosexuality is a choice? If so, how do you back that up? Is your reasoning completely based on your faith, or do you have some actual substance behind your position?

]]> By: atheistik http://non-theist.com/the-poor-persecuted-proponents-of-prop-8/comment-page-1/#comment-33 atheistik Wed, 26 Nov 2008 21:59:53 +0000 http://non-theist.com/?p=71#comment-33 I never said anyone was wrong in complaining about violence. I said you were wrong in attributing violent activities to the majority of the current civil rights movement. What did proposition 8 have to do with the doctor? Where did the "pamphlet" statement come from? If you the AP makes something reliable, you are mistaken. We'll have to agree to disagree and just think the other one is ignorant, I see no other way around it. Let me know if you do. I never said anyone was wrong in complaining about violence. I said you were wrong in attributing violent activities to the majority of the current civil rights movement.

What did proposition 8 have to do with the doctor?

Where did the “pamphlet” statement come from?

If you the AP makes something reliable, you are mistaken.

We’ll have to agree to disagree and just think the other one is ignorant, I see no other way around it. Let me know if you do.

]]> By: Zachary http://non-theist.com/the-poor-persecuted-proponents-of-prop-8/comment-page-1/#comment-32 Zachary Wed, 26 Nov 2008 21:59:28 +0000 http://non-theist.com/?p=71#comment-32 Also, reading the very same article you linked, there was a book involved depicting a homosexual family. So there wasn't a pamphlet, my bad, it was a book. This is a HUGE difference. Also, reading the very same article you linked, there was a book involved depicting a homosexual family. So there wasn’t a pamphlet, my bad, it was a book. This is a HUGE difference.

]]> By: Zachary http://non-theist.com/the-poor-persecuted-proponents-of-prop-8/comment-page-1/#comment-31 Zachary Wed, 26 Nov 2008 21:54:59 +0000 http://non-theist.com/?p=71#comment-31 Josh... Saying that the church is wrong is complaining about the violent acts is supporting violence. Violent acts were becoming more and more prominent, but I wasn't only referring to violent acts I was referring to racial slurs that were yelled during the protests as well as violence that did occur. Just because YOU would support the doctor doesn't mean that everyone would. I'm pointing out the reasons why proposition 8 not passing could've effected me. I simply stated that the father was arrested and taken from the school when he went to complain, I didn't say the reasons that he was arrested. Don't put words into my mouth as I'm fully aware of the situation. And you say that my other complaints are probably not true because of a misconception you took from reading my comment. http://www.weeklystandard.com/content/public/articles/000/000/012/191kgwgh.asp?pg=1 http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2008/apr/08042306.html http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid1815820715?bctid=1822459319 http://www.salon.com/mwt/broadsheet/2008/08/20/benitez_victory/index.html I've done this research, and here are some articles. You can claim they aren't reputable yet they source the AP. Your ignorance doesn't make you right. :) Josh…

Saying that the church is wrong is complaining about the violent acts is supporting violence.

Violent acts were becoming more and more prominent, but I wasn’t only referring to violent acts I was referring to racial slurs that were yelled during the protests as well as violence that did occur.

Just because YOU would support the doctor doesn’t mean that everyone would. I’m pointing out the reasons why proposition 8 not passing could’ve effected me.

I simply stated that the father was arrested and taken from the school when he went to complain, I didn’t say the reasons that he was arrested. Don’t put words into my mouth as I’m fully aware of the situation.

And you say that my other complaints are probably not true because of a misconception you took from reading my comment.

http://www.weeklystandard.com/content/public/articles/000/000/012/191kgwgh.asp?pg=1

http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2008/apr/08042306.html

http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid1815820715?bctid=1822459319

http://www.salon.com/mwt/broadsheet/2008/08/20/benitez_victory/index.html

I’ve done this research, and here are some articles. You can claim they aren’t reputable yet they source the AP.

Your ignorance doesn’t make you right. :)

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